Packer-Moore - Rode Parish Council

There is a problem with the surname as my grandfather (born 1879) was known as Moore and Packer Moore which is difficult to trace accurately. There are families of Moore and Packer and also Packer Moore in and around Frome at that time.

It appears that my grandfather who went to live in Wales at the beginning of last century used both Moore and Packer Moore on documents. Some of his grandchildren were christened Packer Moore but my mother was only Moore on her birth certificate. It has always puzzled me and I feel there is a mystery to be solved although I can’t see how.

He was James Moore on his death certificate but James Packer Moore on his wedding certificate in 1900 when he married in Tredegar South Wales. He was always employed in the coal mines around Tredegar. I obtained a birth certificate for him but in the name of James Packer so I am not entirely convinced I have the correct one. His D.O.B is correct.

I have a birth certificate for my grandfather 1879 where he is Packer and his parents Packer although by the 1881 census this is Packer Moore.

Monica,

You are interested in finding out more about your ancestors� surnames Packer and Moore.� I would expect this to be the result of either:

parents using the mother�s surname as a second name for their children or
a man adopting the surname of a benefactor.
I thought something might come to light if I start with your grandfather and work my way back through his Packer and Moore ancestors.� Here are my early findings.

Your grandfather – James PACKER/PACKER MOORE/MOORE born 1879

Beckington Baptism Registers 1813 � 1900

bapdate

firstname

father

mother

fath-surname

moth-surname

abode

occupation

notes

14 Nov 1864

Emily

James Moore

Sarah

PACKER

Beckington

labourer

05 Aug 1866

Laura

James Moore

Sarah

PACKER

Beckington

labourer

03 Nov 1867

Frank

James Moore

Sarah

PACKER

Beckington

labourer

06 Nov 1870

Fred

James

Sarah

PACKER

MOORE

Beckington

labourer

06 Nov 1870

Mary Jane

James

Sarah

PACKER

MOORE

Beckington

labourer

05 May 1872

Fanny

James

Sarah

PACKER

MOORE

Beckington

labourer

07 Dec 1873

George

James

Sarah

PACKER

MOORE

Beckington

labourer

2 May 1875

Emily�

James

Sarah

PAKER �MORE

Beckington

Labourer

1 April 1877

William

James

Sarah

PAKER� MORE

Beckington

Labourer

7 Dec 1879

Kate

James

Sarah

Packer� Moore

Beckington

Labourer

Aged 12 1/2

7 Dec 1879

James

Sarah

PACKER� MOORE

Beckington

Labourer

2 Jan 1881

Frederick William

Thomas

Hannah Maria

PACKER

Beckington

Gardner

2 Jul 1882

Ella Marion

Thomas

Hannah Maria

PACKER

Beckington

Gardner

1 Apr 1883

Charles

James

Sarah

PAKER� MORE

Beckington

Labourer

Aged 2.

1 Apr 1883

Harry

James

Sarah

PAKER� MORE

Beckington

Labourer

6 Jul 1884

Thomas Charles

Thomas

Hannah Maria

PACKER

Beckington

Gardner

6 Apr 1890

Robert

Thomas

Hannah Maria

PACKER

Beckington

Gardner

Note:� I think that recording of �MOORE� as the mother�s surname in 4 entries is probably an error, due to either an incorrect entry in the original register or a mis-reading of it when transcribed, and it should have been entered with PACKER in the column for the father�s surname.

The above shows that:

a James PACKER MOORE was baptised at Beckington on 7 Dec. 1879
his father was a labourer called James, and his mother�s first name was Sarah
his father�s name seems to have changed from James Moore PACKER in 1867 to James PACKER (or PACKER MOORE*) in 1870.� You can check this by looking in the 1881 census to see if one or more of James� and Sarah�s early children (as shown above) are shown as being in the same family as the later children.
and indicates that:

this James Moore PACKER married a Sarah in about 1864

Beckington Marriage Records 1837 � 1900

mardate

groom-firstname

groom-surname

groom-age

groom-parish

groom-condition

groom-occupation

groom-abode

07 Apr 1864

James Moore

PACKER

bachelor

Labourer

Beckington

bride-firstname

bride-surname

bride-age

bride-parish

bride-condition

bride-occupation

bride-abode

groom-fath-firstname

Sarah

TIMBURY

spinster

Beckington

groom-fath-surname

groom-fath-occupation

bride-fath-firstname

bride-fath-surname

bride-fath-occupation

witness1-firstname

witness1-surname

witness2-firstname

witness2-surname

notes

Joseph

TIMBURY

Labourer

Jane

WEBLEY

Arthur

TIMBURY

Banns

The above shows that:

a James Moore PACKER, labourer, of Beckington, aged 22, married a Sarah TIMBURY also of Beckington, aged 22, on 7 Apr 1864
and indicates that:

this James Moore PACKER was born about 1842

Unfortunately I cannot find a record of the birth/baptism of a James Moore PACKER c1842 on Freereg or any of the copies of local parish registers that I hold.�

St. Lawrence Rode Burial Records 1837 � 1900

There are 5 people with Packer Moore in their name in the Burial Register at St. Lawrence, Rode:

Surname�� Forename�� Abode at Death�� Date�� Age�� Row�� Plot�� Notes��

MOORE�� Charles Packer�� Clifton, Bristol�� 10.1.1974�� 92�� O�� 21��

MOORE�� Frederick Packer�� Rode�� K�� 8�� *

MOORE�� James Packer�� Road�� 1907�� 60�� F�� 16�� *��

MOORE�� Packer�� L�� 8��

MOORE�� Sarah Packer�� Rode�� 1922�� 82�� F�� 16�� *��

I remember transcribing these names from the handwritten register some years ago.� The register had just one column for the name not separate columns for first name and surname.� I remember how the names were written and it was not possible to tell whether �Packer� was a second given name or part of the surname.�

These could be:

MOORE�� James Packer �� died 1907 so born c1847�� Your great grandfather,

MOORE�� Sarah Packer �� died 1922 so born c1840�� Your great grandmother

MOORE�� Frederick Packer �� died c1937*�� A brother of your grandfather

MOORE�� Charles Packer �� died 1974 so born c1882�� A brother of your grandfather

MOORE�� Packer�� died c 1946*

*Estimated from information of the burials either side of these plots.

So it would seem from the information I have looked at so far, that the combination of Packer and Moore was limited to the family of James born c1842/7 and it did not come from his wife Sarah TIMBURY as it was already in his name when he married in 1864.

Since your great grandfather James Moore PACKER, as he was called in 1864, seems to have been born since the start of the national registration of births marriages and deaths in 1837, it should be possible for you to obtain a certificate of his marriage to Sarah which would state who his mother and father were.� There should also be certificates of his birth and death which may also provide that information.�

If you are successful in finding his father�s name I could then search my records to find his relations.

Peter

Monica,

Since my last email I have looked at MOORE and PACKER marriages in the St. Lawrence Rode records, see below:

St. Lawrence Rode Marriage Records 1837 � 1900

mardate

groom-firstname

groom-surname

groom-age

groom-parish

groom-occupation

groom-abode

bride-firstname

bride-surname

bride-age

bride-condn

bride-occup

bride-abode

groom-fath-firstname

groom-fath-surname

groom-fath-occupation

bride-fath-firstname

bride-fath-surname

bride-fath-occupation

witness1-firstname

witness1-surname

withness2-firstname

witness2-surname

notes

05 Nov 1838

Hezekiah

MOORE

full age

bachelor

Blacksmith

Road

Eliza

DIX

full age

spinster

Servant

Road

James

MOORE

Blacksmith

John

DIX

Labourer

Henry

MOORE

Mary

NOAD

Additional witness: Josiah FRANCIS Parish Clerk

04 Mar 1839

Henry

MOORE

full age

bachelor

Blacksmith

Road

Anne

GOULTER

full age

spinster

Road

James

MOORE

Blacksmith

John

GOULTER

Cordwainer

John

GOULTER

Josiah

FRANCIS

[wit2 Josiah FRANCIS Parish Clerk]

09 Jul 1840

James

MOORE

full age

bachelor

Farmer

North Bradley

Harriet

PIKE

spinster

Road

Edward

MOORE

Farmer

James

PIKE

Farmer

James

PIKE

Louisa

COCKRELL

Licence; additional witness: Josiah FRANCIS Parish Clerk

25 Dec 1844

William

MOORE

full age

bachelor

Fuller

Road

Sophia

SILCOCK

full age

spinster

Road

James

MOORE

Blacksmith

John

SILCOCK

Shearman

Samuel

SILCOCK

James

JONES

Banns

03 Apr 1850

James

PACKER

full age

bachelor

Labourer

Road

Elizabeth

WILTON

full age

spinster

Road

Job

PACKER

Labourer

Joseph

WILTON

Carpenter

Selina

BULL

James

WHEELER

Banns

22 Mar 1860

Samuel

PACKER

bachelor

Carpenter

Road

Louisa

BRAY

spinster

Servant

Road

Samuel

PACKER

Spinner

John

BRAY

Labourer

Thomas

PIKE

Elizabeth

BRAY

Banns; additional witness: Elizabeth HAPPERFIELD

07 Nov 1861

Henry Packer

MOORE

bachelor

Labourer

Road

Elizabeth Ann

PARSONS

spinster

Servant

Beckington

William

MOORE

Pensioner

Benjamin

PARSONS

Labourer

George

STOKES

Elizabeth

MOORE

Banns

23 Apr 1863

John

MOORE

bachelor

Farmer

Road

Mary Ann

ALLEN

spinster

Servant

Road

Job

MOORE

Labourer

John

ALLEN

Gardener

James

FEAR

Sarah

BLACKMORE

Banns

02 Jul 1895

Frederick Packer

MOORE

bachelor

Labourer

Road

Agnes Emily

BROADWAY

spinster

Road

James

MOORE

Labourer

James

BROADWAY

Labourer

Henry

BROADWAY

Roseina

FRANCIS

The above shows that:

a Henry Packer MOORE, labourer, of Rode, aged 24, married an Elizabeth Ann PARSONS of Beckington, aged 23, on 7 Nov 1861
his father was William MOORE
Elizabeth MOORE was a witness
and indicates that:

this Henry Packer MOORE was born about 1837

Looking at the baptism records for MOORE and PACKER at St. Lawrence Rode

county

place

church

birthdate

baptdate

firstname

sex

father

mother

fath-surname

moth-surname

abode

occupation

notes

SOM

Rode

St Lawrence

1156

12 Nov 1837

Henry

–

William

Sarah

MOORE

Road Somerset

Labourer

The above shows that:

� a Henry MOORE baptised at St. L. Rode on 12 Nov 1837

his father was a labourer called William and his mother�s first name was Sarah
and indicates that:

this William MOORE married a Sarah prior to 1837

I am not sure who this William and Sarah are.� So far I have only found these candidates, none of which seem very likely:

1818/31 William MOORE, farmer of Sedgehill Wilts and Sarah baptised 6 children James 1818, William 1820, John 1823, George 1826, George 1828, Sarah 1831

1823 William Moore jnr., clerk, of Brimsfield� Gls married Sarah Eliza Emily WORTHINGTON, at Bath witness Elizabeth MOORE

1825 William MOORE, bachelor, married Sarah HEADFORD widow at Bridgewater

I have also found

1835 William MOORE, bachelor, married Judith PACKER, widow, at Bath.� This is the first instance that I have found of a MOORE marrying a PACKER

and

1836 a Judith MOORE died at St. L. Rode, aged 48 hence born c1788

So it would be just possible for this William to marry again ( to a Sarah) and name his first child Henry Packer MOORE

This is still some way from a connection to James Moore PACKER born c1842/7 but I feel it could be a good lead.

A possible family tree would look like this

Abbreviations:�� b born; bp baptised; l lived; m married; d died; bu buried,

�� R� Rode; StL St. Lawrence Rode; Bapt Baptist Chapel Rode RH RodeHill; CC Christchurch Rode Hill; Beck Beckington; W Woolverton; NB NorthBradley

�� mbefore1786

�� Job PACKER�� =�� (1) ?

�� shearman�� |

�� W,NB,R�� |

�� b1769�� |

�� buMar1827StL�� |

�� age58�� |

�� _____ ____________________|

�� |

�� m24Nov1835Bath�� |�� mbefore1816

�� (1)William MOORE�� =�� (1)Judith PACKER�� |�� =�� (2)Jedidiah ?

�� b1793/5�� |�� widow�� |�� |�� b1788

�� l1841Rage46�� |�� b1788�� |�� |

�� bu07Mar1867Bapt�� |�� bu3May1836StL�� |�� |

�� age74�� |�� age48�� |�� |

�� ____|�� |�� |

�� |�� ____|�� _____________________|____

�� |�� m1837?�� |�� out of wedlock�� |�� |�� |�� |

�� |�� =�� (2)Sarah PACKER�� =�� James�� Mary Ann�� John�� Sabina

�� |�� |�� b1799/1808/1811�� |�� b1816/18

�� |�� |�� l1841Rage33�� |�� bp22Apr1816StL�� bp13Sep1818StL�� bp7Apr1822StL�� bp6Aug1826StL

�� |�� |�� m1868age57�� |�� l1841Rage23

�� |�� |�� bu20Aug1871Bapt�� |�� bu8Jan1891CC�� bu2Feb1823StL

�� |�� |�� age72�� |�� age73�� age11m

�� |�� |�� |� � � � � � �� _

�� |�� |�� |

�� |�� |�� m21Aug1868StL�� |

�� |�� |�� =�� (2)John YEOMAN�� |

�� |�� |�� |

�� |�� ______________________________________�� |

�� |�� |�� |�� |

�� |�� m07Nov1861StL�� |�� |�� m07Apr1864Beck

�� John�� Henry Packer�� =�� Elizabeth Ann PARSONS� William� James Moore PACKER�� =�� Sarah TIMBURY

�� b1834�� b1837�� b1840 (James PACKER MOORE)�� |

�� l1841Rage7�� bp12Nov1837StL�� bp04Oct1840StL�� labourer�� |

�� l1841Rage4�� l1841Rage14m�� b1842/7�� |�� b1840/2

�� m1861age24�� m1864age22�� |�� m1864age22

�� bu10Aug1892Bapt�� bu26Mar1901Bapt�� bud1907StLF16�� |�� bu1922StLF16

�� age54�� age61�� age60�� |�� age82

�� |

�� _______________________________________________________________________________________|____

�� |�� |�� |�� |�� |�� |�� |�� |

�� Emily�� Laura�� Frank�� Fred (Packer)�� Mary Jane�� Fanny (Packer)�� George�� |

�� bp14Nov1864Beck�� bp05Aug1866Beck� bp03Nov1867Beck,� bp06Nov1870Beck,�� bp06Nov1870Beck� bp05May1872Beck� bp07Dec1873Beck�� |

�� bu20Dec1874Beck�� bu1951StLM3�� bu1937StLK8�� |

�� age10�� age84�� |

�� ______________________________________________________________________________________|

�� |�� |�� |�� |�� |�� |

�� Harry�� Charles (Packer)�� James (Packer)�� Kate�� William �� Emily

�� bp01Apr1883Beck�� bp01Apr1883Beck�� bp07Dec1879Beck�� bp07Dec1879Beck�� bp01Apr1877Beck�� bp02May1875Beck

�� bu1974StLO21�� bu1882StLB6

�� age92�� age6

Possibility – Circa 1841 Sarah nee PACKER, born 1799/1811, wife of William MOORE has an illegitimate child with her step brother James PACKER born 1816/1818, whilst he is staying in her house (1841 Census). The child is given his father�s name with his mother�s married name as a second christian name, hence �James Moore PACKER.

Apart from finding William and Sarah�s marriage, a next move might be to try to find Judith PACKER�s parents.

Peter

Monica

I have 3 more snippets of info. for you:

St. Lawrence baptism records show 4 baptisms for children of Job and JIdiah/Jedida/Juditha PACKER

place

church

birthdate

baptdate

firstname

sex

father

mother

fath-surname

moth-surname

abode

occupation

Rode

St Lawrence

13 Oct 1816

James

Job

Jidiah

PACKER

Wolverton

Shearman

Rode

St Lawrence

13 Sep 1818

Mary Ann

Job

Jedida

PACKER

North Bradley Wilts

Shearman

Rode

St Lawrence

07 Apr 1822

John

Job

Juditha

PACKER

Road

Shearman

Rode

St Lawrence

06 Aug 1826

Sabina

Job

Jedida

PACKER

Road

Shearman

and St. Lawrence burial records show the burial of a Job PACKER in 1827 age58

place

church

burdate

firstname

relationship

rel1-male-first

rel2-female-first

rel1-surname

surname

age

abode

Rode

St Lawrence

470

11 Mar 1827

Job

PACKER

Road

This would have left Juditha PACKER as a widow and hence in a position to marry William MOORE in 1838

The Rode Baptist Chapel burial records show the burial of a William MOORE in 1867 age 74

place

church

burdate

firstname

relationship

rel1-male-first

rel2-female-first

rel1-surname

surname

age

abode

Rode

Particular Baptist

07 Mar 1867

William

MOORE

This would have left his second wife Sarah as a widow in 1867

and St. Lawrence marriage records also show:

church

mardate

groom-firstname

groom-surname

groom-age

groom-parish

groom-condition

groom-occupation

groom-abode

bride-firstname

bride-surname

St Lawrence

122

21 Aug 1868

John

YEOMAN

widower

Yeoman

Road

Sarah

MOORE

bride-age

bride-parish

bride-condition

bride-occupation

bride-abode

groom-fath-firstname

groom-fath-surname

groom-fath-occupation

bride-fath-firstname

bride-fath-surname

bride-fath-occupation

widow

Road

William

YEOMAN

Labourer

Job

PACKER

Labourer

which indicates that a Sarah MOORE widow age 57 married again and her father was Job PACKER, labourer

The 1841 census record for Rode shows the following household living at Church Row

Folio/

Place

House

Forename

Surname

Age

Profession, Trade,

Born in

8/8

Church Row

//William

MOORE

Ag Lab

8/8

Sarah

MOORE

8/8

Henry

MOORE

8/8

John

MOORE

8/8

William

MOORE

14 mo

8/8

/James

PACKER

Ag Lab

The ages shown can be a useful cross check but in the 1841 census they were not very accurate.

Putting this information together a possible family tree could be as follows

Abbreviations:�� b born; bp baptised; l lived; m married; d died; bu buried,

�� R� Rode; StL St. Lawrence Rode; Bapt Baptist Chapel Rode RH Rode Hill; CC Christchurch Rode Hill; Beck Beckington; W Woolverton; NB North Bradley

Key�� Members of household from 1841 census highlighted in green

�� mbefore1808

�� Jidiah/Jedida/Juditha ?�� =�� Job PACKER

�� b1788�� |�� labourer/shearman

�� 1829Baptmember?�� |�� W,NB,R

�� bu3May1836StL�� |�� b1769

�� age48�� |�� buMar1827StL

�� m24Nov1835Bath�� |�� age58

�� William MOORE�� =�� |

�� bachelor�� |�� |

�� b1793/5�� |�� |

�� l1841Rage46�� |�� |

�� bu07Mar1867Bapt�� |�� |

�� age74�� |�� |

�� ____________________________________|�� |

�� |�� |___________________________________

�� |�� m1837?�� |�� |�� |�� |�� |

�� |�� =�� Sarah�� James�� Mary Ann�� John�� Sabina

�� |�� |�� b1808/09/11�� b1816/18��

�� |�� |�� l1841Rage33 bp22Apr1816StL�� bp13Sep1818StL�� bp7Apr1822StL�� bp6Aug1826StL

�� |�� ____________________|�� m1868age57�� l1841Rage23�� bu2Feb1823StL

�� |�� |�� bu18Jun1876Bapt bu8Jan1891CC�� age11m

�� |�� |�� age67�� age73��

�� |�� |�� m21Aug1868StL

�� |�� |�� John YEOMAN�� =

�� |�� |

�� |�� |_____________________________________� � � � ��

�� |�� |�� |�� |

�� |�� |�� m07Nov1861StL�� |�� |�� m07Apr1864Beck

�� John�� Henry Packer�� =�� Elizabeth Ann PARSONS�� William�� James Moore PACKER�� =�� Sarah TIMBURY

�� b1834�� b1837�� b1840�� (James PACKER MOORE)�� |�� b1840/2

�� l1841Rage7�� bp12Nov1837StL�� bp04Oct1840StL�� labourer�� |�� m1864age22

�� l1841Rage4�� l1841Rage14m�� b1842/7�� |�� bu1922StLF16

�� m1861age24�� bu26Mar1901Bapt�� m1864age22�� |�� age82

�� bu10Aug1892Bapt�� age61�� bud1907StLF16�� |

�� age54�� age60�� |

�� |

�� ________________________________________________________________________________________________|____

�� |�� |�� |�� |�� |�� |�� |�� |

�� Emily�� Laura�� Frank�� Fred (Packer)�� Mary Jane�� Fanny (Packer)�� George�� |

�� bp14Nov1864Beck�� bp05Aug1866Beck�� bp03Nov1867Beck,�� bp06Nov1870Beck,�� bp06Nov1870Beck�� bp05May1872Beck�� bp07Dec1873Beck�� |

�� bu20Dec1874Beck�� bu1951StLM3�� bu1937StLK8�� |

�� age10�� age84�� |

�� _______________________________________________________________________________________________|

�� |�� |�� |�� |�� |�� |

�� Harry�� Charles (Packer)�� James (Packer)�� Kate�� William �� Emily

�� bp01Apr1883Beck�� bp01Apr1883Beck�� bp07Dec1879Beck�� bp07Dec1879Beck�� bp01Apr1877Beck�� bp02May1875Beck

�� bu1974StLO21�� bu1882StLB6

�� age92�� age6

Unfortunately James Moore PACKER was not born until after the 1841 census.� It would be interesting to see if he is included in William and Sarah MOORE�s family in the 1851 and 1861 censuses.

Peter

Christchurch, Rode, Baptism Records 1824-1913

birthdate

baptdate

firstname

sex

father

mother

fath-surname

moth-surname

abode

occupation

notes

25 Dec 1825

Jane

James

Harriett

PACKER

Road

Labourer

01 Nov 1829

Maria

Albert

Charlotte

PACKER

North Bradley

Dyer

03 Apr 1831

Joseph

Jacob

Mary Anne

PACKER

North Bradley

Labourer

25 Dec 1831

Henry

Albert

Charlotte

PACKER

North Bradley

Labourer

22 Dec 1833

Emily

Albert

Elizabeth

PACKER

North Bradley

Labourer

14 Feb 1841

Harriott Usher Pike

James

Harriot

MOORE

North Bradley

Yeoman

11 Dec 1842

James Pike

James

Harriot

MOORE

North Bradley

Yeoman

20 Oct 1844

Catherine Jane

James

Harriet

MOORE

North Bradley

Yeoman

02 Mar 1847

Edward

James

Harriet

MOORE

North Bradley

Yeoman

15 Aug 1847

Louisa Caroline

Edwin

Ellen

PACKER

North Bradley

Labourer

10 May 1849

Emma Louisa

James

Harriet

MOORE

North Bradley

Yeoman

05 May 1850

Elizabeth Mary

Edwin

Ellen

PACKER

North Bradley

Labourer

12 May 1850

John

Henry

Mary

MOORE

North Bradley

Labourer

privately bd

28 Apr 1851

Charles Henry

James

Harriet

MOORE

North Bradley

Yeoman

16 Nov 1851

Charles

Edwin

Ellen

PACKER

North Bradley

Labourer

27 Jun 1852

Frederick

George

Hannah

PACKER

North Bradley

Labourer

25 Dec 1855

James

George

Hannah

PACKER

North Bradley

Labourer

16 Aug 1857

Louisa

Henry

Sarah

PACKER

North Bradley

Labourer

age 14 yrs

18 Apr 1858

Henry

George

Hannah

PACKER

North Bradley

Labourer

19 Sep 1858

Sidney

Edwin

Ellen

PACKER

Wolverton

Labourer

18 Nov 1860

William Henry

Edwin

Ellen

PACKER

Wolverton

Labourer

22 Mar 1863

Edwin Lambert

Edwin

Ellen

PACKER

Wolverton

Labourer

25 Dec 1864

Frank

Edwin

Ellen

PACKER

Wolverton

Labourer

03 Oct 1869

Agnes Ellen

Edwin

Ellen

PACKER

Road Somerset

Servant

15 Jun 1851

24 Mar 1872

George Wilton

James

Elizabeth

PACKER

North Bradley

Labourer

02 May 1857

24 Mar 1872

Albert Henry

James

Elizabeth

PACKER

North Bradley

Labourer

09 May 1860

24 Mar 1872

Mary Ann

James

Elizabeth

PACKER

North Bradley

Labourer

28 Nov 1880

Emma

–

Frederick George

Sarah Anne

PACKER

Beckington

Labourer

27 Nov 1881

Herbert Henry

–

Sidney

Julia Mary

PACKER

Roadhill N B

Painter

24 Sep 1882

Sarah

–

Frederick George

Susan Anne

PACKER

Roadhill N B

Labourer

28 Jan 1883

Malcolm Sidney

–

Sidney

Julia�

PACKER

Roadhill N B

Painter

25 May 1884

Mary

–

Frederick George

Sarah Anne

PACKER

Roadhill

Labourer

29 Nov 1885

Amy

–

Frederick George

Sarah Ann

PACKER

Roadhill

Labourer

26 Dec 1898

William George

–

Albert Henry

Eliza Ellen

PACKER

Bristol

Mason

The above shows that:

� a James Pike MOORE was baptised at Beckington on, 11 Dec 1842

� his father was a yeoman called James, and his mother�s first name was Harriet

� his father�s name seems to have changed from James Moore PACKER in 1867 to James PACKER (or PACKER MOORE*) in 1870.� You can check this by looking to see if one or more of James� and Sarah�s early children (as shown above) are shown as being in the same family as the later children in the 1881 census.

and indicates that:

� this James Moore Packer married a Sarah in about 1864

Rode Baptist Chapel

Graveyard Records

Page�� Surname�� Forename�� Abode at Death�� Date�� Age�� Plot�� Notes

1�� Packer�� John�� 19.8.1922�� 88�� S15�� * gs

1�� Packer�� Mary Ann�� 26.1.1916�� 82�� S15�� * gs, w of J

1�� Moore�� John�� 6.2.1876�� 49�� S17�� * gs

1�� Moore�� Sarah Greenhill�� 19.1.1876�� 40�� S17�� * gs, w of J

�� Moore�� Alexandra May�� 14.7.1969�� 67�� S51�� d of F S Blissett

(S stands for the south part of the graveyard)

Plot S15 Headstone. �Our parents� Mary Ann PACKER, died 26 Jan 1916, aged 82, and John Packer, died 19 Aug 1922, aged 88.

Plot S17 Headstone. �In memory of / John MOORE / who died Feby: 6th 1876 / aged 49 years / Also of / Sarah Greenhill / wife of the above / who died Jany: 19th 1876 / aged 40�.

Plot S51 Sloping Stone and kerb. Frederick Sidney BLISSETT, died 1 Aug 1943, aged 69. And his daughter, Alexandra May MOORE, died 14 July 1969, aged 67.

Memorial (inside)

White on black marble Tablet on north wall. �In memory of Charlotte / the belov�d wife of James PICKARD / who died January 2nd 1865, aged 61 years / Also of their children, as follows: / Edmund Pickard / who died February 9th 1837, aged 1 year / Elizabeth Pickard / who died March 21st 1837, aged 11 years / Edmund Pickard / who died October 11th 1838, aged 14 weeks / John Pickard / who died October 31st 1845, aged 17 years / Also of the above named / James Pickard / who died October 16th 1880, aged 77 years / Also of Mary Porter, widow of / the late John MOORE, of Trowbridge / and second wife of the above James Pickard / who died January 31st 1897, aged 78 years�.

Christchurch

Graveyard Records

Nothing

St. Lawrence

Graveyard Records

Page�� Surname�� Forename�� Abode at Death�� Date�� Age�� Row�� Plot�� Notes

11�� Moore�� Ada�� Road�� 1884�� 13�� B�� 7�� *

20�� Moore�� Ann�� Road�� 1892�� 76�� D�� 14�� *

68�� Moore�� Bayfield Kenneth�� Devizes�� 22.3.1984�� 60�� P�� 12�� * gs has born 1924

65�� Moore�� Charles Packer�� Clifton, Bristol�� 10.1.1974�� 92�� O�� 21��

11�� Moore�� Frank�� Beckington�� 1883�� 30m�� B�� 6�� *

55�� Moore�� Frank�� Lower St.�� 1951�� 84�� M�� 3�� gs unreadable

47�� Moore�� Frederick Packer�� Rode�� K�� 8�� *

32�� Moore�� George Henry�� Road�� 1911�� 24�� G�� 13��

20�� Moore�� Henry�� Road�� 1897�� 82�� D�� 14�� *

11�� Moore�� James�� Road�� 1882�� 58�� B�� 7�� *

11�� Moore�� James (Junior)�� Road�� 1882�� 6�� B�� 6�� *

28�� Moore�� James Packer�� Road�� 1907�� 60�� F�� 16�� *

68�� Moore�� Joyce May�� Devizes�� 20.5.1982�� 60�� P�� 12�� * gs has born 1921

51�� Moore�� Packer�� L�� 8��

28�� Moore�� Sarah Packer�� Rode�� 1922�� 82�� F�� 16�� *

23�� Moore�� William�� E�� 2��

21�� Packer�� Edwin�� Road�� 1893�� 66�� D�� 19��

8�� Packer�� Ellen�� Road�� 6.4.1885�� 57�� A�� 12�� *

30�� Packer�� Emma�� Road�� 1909�� 80�� F�� 25��

8�� Packer�� Louisa Caroline�� Road�� 2.1.1876�� 28�� A�� 12�� *

47�� Packer Moore�� Frederick�� Rode�� K�� 8�� *

51�� Packer Moore�� L�� 8��

65�� Packer-Moore�� Charles�� Clifton, Bristol�� 10.1.1974�� 92�� O�� 21��

War Memorial on the Green

Pte: John MOORE, O. & B. L.I

Rode Cricket Team 1929

Photo

Back: �� G Francis�� P J Fussell�� R Moger�� W Goulter

Middle:�� Titch Giddings�� H Fussell�� C Beaven�� H Joyce�� N Banks�� G Pike�� J Moore�� W Riddle

�� (scorer)�� (umpire)

Front:�� W Lane�� J Harrington�� W Baber�� F Joyce�� H Moore

Exchange of emails with Monica Hunt

Peter Harris pjh14cl@gmail.com

19:28 (3 minutes ago)

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif

to George

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif

Monica

We communicated regarding your great grandfather James Moore Packer/Packer Moore about 3 years ago. I have just looked again at your problem following another enquiry and a new thought struck me regarding his parentage, which I don’t think we considered.

In the 1841 census Sarah Moore, nee Packer, born 1799/1811, was living with her husband, William Moore and their children in Rode. There is one other person reported staying in the house, James Packer, born 1816/1818, step brother I believe, to Sarah. It is therefore a reasonable possibility that Sarah Moore and James Packer had an illegitimate son in 1842, your great grandfather, and he was given the name, James Moore Packer to reflect both of his parents. This would explain the lack of information about his birth/baptism and the lack of a father’s name on his certificate of marriage to Sarah Timbury.

Regards

Many thank again. All of this shows what an expert you are. I will give a day to research this week and tell you how it hangs together in my mind.

I feel there are two possible families and as you say how accurate is the info on the census?

Best wishes,

Monica.

On Monday, 1 June 2015, 9:36, Peter and Ann Harris avpu52@dsl.pipex.com wrote:

Monica

A few more bits of information attached which might help your investigation

Regards

Peter

From: GEORGE HUNTER

Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2015 4:15 PM

To: Peter and Ann Harris

Subject: Re: Rode history

This is so exciting and many thanks for giving it your time. I really need a day on this to decide who is the true ancestor! This week is half term and we have the grandchildren most of the time which will not give me a clear head.

I will let you have all I have found out which is quite confusing. I do wish I could locate someone who had done some of this research before but I have lost contact with most of the Moore family.

I will be back in touch soon.

Monica.

On Tuesday, 26 May 2015, 16:44, Peter and Ann Harris avpu52@dsl.pipex.com wrote:

Monica

I have attached the result of a little more researching. I hope I am not overloading you but your puzzle has aroused my interest.

One thing I don�t have is census information (apart from Rode in 1841), so your census info for 1861 might be of assistance to me. There are so many MOORE and PACKER with the same forename that it is easy to make a mistake and choose the wrong one. You mention Francis Timbury living with one family and it was common to have a cousin visiting (or even working for) an aunt.

Peter

From: GEORGE HUNTER

Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 3:11 PM

To: Peter and Ann Harris

Subject: Re: Rode history

This is fantastic from you and many thanks for all the work you have done on my behalf. I have been reading it and initially can say that I did send for the marriage certificate of James Moore Packer to Sarah Timbury on April 7th1864. Unfortunately no father’s name is given for James but Sarah has Joseph Timbury as her father. What is confusing is that he is called James Moore with Packer as a surname. I do think the two deaths in the 1900’s are of the parents of James Packer. I simply cannot work out why my grandfather was always Moore and his children mostly Moore although some of them used Packer Moore.

Another confusing bit of information is the 1861 census where a James Moore is living with his family in Rode. Here his father is Henry and his mother Ann. Also there is a James Packer living with William Hook, listed as a servant. Funnily enough there is a Francis Timbury in the same abode. I am not sure which would be my relative and really need to spend a few days sifting through. By the 1881 census the father has James P Moore written down.

I know children went to live in other families quite frequently and wonder if there had been some mixing of families in the area. I am almost on the point of giving up on this one because I have no proof of anything from my family members, one of whom said ” it was all very hush hush”. Unfortunately that older generation has passed on.

I am open to any suggestion on how to continue this research and will keep in touch.

Many thanks again,

Monica.

On Monday, 18 May 2015, 11:05, Peter and Ann Harris avpu52@dsl.pipex.com wrote:

Monica

I have been looking through my records and traced the Packer/Moores back one generation but have got stuck at your great grandfather (see attached notes). I don�t know how keen you are, but if you can get one of the certificates I mention, I may be able to take it further.

Regards

Peter

From: GEORGE HUNTER

Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 8:24 AM

To: Peter and Ann Harris

Subject: Re: Rode history

Hi Peter!

Thanks for your email. We had poor weather around Frome but managed to see the streets I had noted from the census. We thought the church in Beckington was lovely and saw the old houses in Goose Street. Of course I had no idea where the ancestors had lived precisely. Rode was particularly wet and we walked from the church, which was locked, down to the Post Office where we took shelter and had a good coffee. We had lunch next door in the pub. I had a few interesting conversations en route.

We did go to Frome and spoke to a helpful gentleman in the library. I had decided to look at the war memorials in the 3 places, having been told a few years ago that there were quite a few Packer Moore’s on them. This did not prove to be the case however.

My on going problem is the Packer and Moore. My mother was always Moore but some of her siblings (she was the youngest of 8) had christened their children Packer Moore. I have a birth certificate for my grandfather 1879 where he is Packer and his parents Packer although by the 1881 census this is Packer Moore. I see all the possibilities but no certainty.

I would be grateful to read your interpretation whatever as you are on the spot. Maybe there is a scandal there!

I will keep in touch,

Monica.

On Tuesday, 12 May 2015, 20:07, Peter and Ann Harris avpu52@dsl.pipex.com wrote:

Dear Monica

Hope you had an enjoyable visit to Bath and the Frome area. If your weather was the same as ours in Wales, it could have been better. Now that you have visited Rode do you have any follow up queries that I might be able to assist you with?

Regards

Peter

From: GEORGE HUNTER

Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 7:17 PM

To: Peter and Ann Harris

Subject: Re: Rode history

I am delighted to hear from you and feel more optimistic about furthering my research. It appears that my grandfather who went to live in Wales at the beginning of last century used both Moore and Packer Moore on documents. Some of his grandchildren were christened Packer Moore but my mother was only Moore on her birth certificate. It has always puzzled me and I feel there is a mystery to be solved although I can’t see how.

I am sorry I won’t be able to meet you and we will take great pleasure in following your walk. Thank you for the speedy reply and enjoy your holiday,

Monica.

From: Peter and Ann Harris avpu52@dsl.pipex.com
To: GEORGE HUNTER georgeandmonhunter@btinternet.com
Sent: Wednesday, 29 April 2015, 18:12
Subject: Re: Rode history

Dear Monica,

I am pleased that you found my book interesting and I would be happy to provide any information that I can about Rode and the Moore, Packer and Packer Moore families. I too had difficulty deciding whether Packer was a first name or surname when transcribing the burial records to a computer. I don�t think I have yet traced which Packer married a Moore. I presume you have looked at FREEBMD and FREEREG to find births marriages and deaths.

Regarding your visit next week, I would have been pleased to show you around but unfortunately I will be away for the whole week. To answer your immediate questions, looking at my map, Newtown was the name for a terrace of buildings (once 7 cottages but now 3) built 1806, on Church Lane situated just above the �LANE� at the centre of the map. Goose St. is in Beckington, and Upper St. is that part of the High St from the Cross Keys Inn to Rode Hill. House numbers were not used until after WWII so it is difficult to identify precise houses from the early censuses. I do have copies of the deeds of some houses which may mention the Packers or Moores, but it will take a while to go through them.

I have not done any detailed research of these families so there is unlikely to be anything about them on the Rode History website. However I have a number of records which may mention some of them, including the graveyard records for St. Lawrence, Christchurch and the Baptist Chapel, all in Rode.

Perhaps when I return from my travels I will be able to find some detailed info. about your family. Could you let me have your grandfather�s full name?

Meanwhile enjoy your visit. Maybe you could take in the whole walk mentioned in my book.

Kind regards

Peter

From: GEORGE HUNTER

Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 4:09 PM

To: pandaharris@dsl.pipex.com

Subject: Rode history

Hello.

I have just received your interesting book about the history of Rode. I have found your email on the relevant site so am hoping you can advise me.

I am coming down to Bath next week for a couple of nights. I am hoping to further my research on the maternal side of my family in the 19th century. I have already had some invaluable help from Christine Simpson in Frome and she suggested that I visit the area to see where my ancestors lived.

On the Census they seemed to have lived in Rode and Beckington. There is a problem with the surname as my grandfather (born 1879) was known as Moore and Packer Moore which is difficult to trace accurately. There are families of Moore and Packer and also Packer Moore in and around Frome at that time.

What I would like to concentrate on next week is the area where they appear to have lived. I cannot find the streets on your map and wonder if you have any ideas. I have Newtown, Goose Street, Upper Street, on the census from Rode which I would like to visit. I think they might be demolished, of course. I also wonder if there is a record of the graves in the church there.

Thank you very much, in advance.

Monica Hunter