Collins

Correspondence with Dave Collins,

whose ancestors include Jonathan Noad and Thomas Whitaker

email from Dave Collins dated 26.09.2010� dave.clnz@xtra.co.nz

Hello Peter.� That is all very interesting and partly new to us as far as I am aware.

So, this is what I have:

Jonathon Noad was Sally [Sarah] Wheeler�s father.� Sally first married James Collins, and after he died James Wheeler.

I don�t know who Harriet Rhind was BUT James Collins and Sally had a son Thomas � my gg-grandfather � and two daughters Harriet and Ann.� Harriet married Richard Woodward Isbel at Rode in 1815, and Ann married William Wilks in Sydney in 1831.� Perhaps that was Harriet�s second marriage but we do not have information about that.

I do not have the documentation but we are fairly sure that Ann and the Isbels migrated to Sydney in 1829 on brother Thomas�s ship Elizabeth.� They were certainly there for Ann�s wedding in 1831.� It is possible they went earlier � there were voyages in 1824 and 1827.

I think there were also Wheelers on that voyage and I know two Whitakers [Henry and Samuel] and their families were on it � a Whitaker descendant in Australia has that data.

It was an eventful voyage because my g-grandfather James Carden Collins was born en route, aboard the ship at Port of Spain Trinidad [incidentally, where there were also some Noads at the time].

Thomas Collins� wife Sophia was from London but her mother was Elizabeth Andrews of Langham.

In 1838 Sophia took her then-family home, the main reason we have found was for James Carden�s schooling.� In an interview in about 1915 he gave that as the only reason for returning.� Also, when they returned it was to Langham where Arthur Brook Whitaker was born in 1839.� However Humphrey Minchin Robert Graeme was born in Rode in 1841 � I suppose at a Noad residence.

[Goodness knows why their names had to be that complicated!]

So before 1841 Sophia may well have been caring for her mother-in-law and one would suppose that continued until her death, or perhaps Sophia moved there after Sally died � Robert was born in Rode a few months after Sally died.� In 1844 this was the address Thomas put on a letter to Sophia describing his financial plight and saying she would have to return to Australia.� [Yes, I am aware of the proximity and changes to the Somerset/Wiltshire boundary.]

Mrs Collins

Road

Beckington

Bradford

Wilts

Sydney, April 28th 1844

Sophia and her children returned to Australia in 1844 after a huge financial crash in Australia, plus increasingly bad health put Thomas out of his highly lucrative shipping and whaling businesses.� This also ruined the Isbels and the Wilks.� It is probable Ann Wilks also returned to Australia at that time.� After arrival in Sydney (Uncle) William Wilks escorted 15yo James Carden about 400 miles on horseback to where his father was establishing a farming operation in Queensland.

Unfortunately we have no further information on Harriet and Ann, however one might suppose the conveyance of the house to Arthur in 1865 was winding up one or both their estates.� Their brother Thomas died in 1866.� Or perhaps they decided to liquidate for their retirement.

[Arthur Noad was a most interesting bloke � I am slowly working on some letters he wrote to his mother from the Mediterranean as an officer in the Navy.]

The following tree data � which could have some early errors since I have not checked it recently � gives some background and also explains what was happening during that period.

Descendants of Jonathon Noad�����������������������������������

�� 1� ���� Jonathon Noad���������� b: 5 November 1740�������������� d: 26 August 1814������ �����������

..��� +Sally Whitaker��� b: 11 June 1739 in North Bradley, Wiltshire� m: 29 April 1762 in North Bradley, Wiltshire��� d: 6 April 1809����������� Father: Thomas Whitaker�� Mother: Ann����������

… 2� ���� Ann Noad������� b: Bef. 1 November 1763������������������� d: 1828����������������������� �����

…….���������������� +Joseph Rose� b: Abt. 1775��������������� d: 1852����������� Burial: Baptist Chapel, Rode�������������������������

………�� 3� ������� Thomas Whitaker Rose��������� b: January 1808��������������������� d: Aft. March 1882����������������������������������������

………�� 3� ������� Ann Rose�������� b: Abt. 1805��������������� d: 10 July 1867 in Rode�� Burial: Baptist Chapel, Rode����������������������������������

… 2� ���� Sarah Noad���� b: 21 March 1764������������������� d: Abt. February 1841 Burial: 4 February 1841 Rode, Somerset���������

…….���������������� +James Collins b: Abt. 1759 in Hemington, Somerset����������� m: 23 January 1788 in Road, Somerset������� d: Abt. 1 April 1794���� Burial: 2 April 1794�� Father: Mister Collins��������������������

………�� 3� ������� Harriet Collins b: Bef. 1790����������������������������������������������������������������

………….���������������������� +Richard Woodward Isbel����� b: in East Stonehouse, Devon m: 16 November 1815 in Rode, Somerset���������������������������������������������������������

………�� 3� ������� Thomas Collins���������� b: 18 October 1790 in Road, Somerset��������� �� d: 6 August 1866 in Nindooinbah, Albert River, Queensland�������������������

………….���������������������� +Sophia Pamela Danvers������� b: 16 October 1808 in Richmond, Surrey m: 9 August 1826 in St Mary Magdalen, Richmond, Surrey�

………�� 3� ������� Ann Collins���� b: 1793�����������������������������������������������������������������������

………….���������������������� +William Wilks����������� b: 1801����������� m: 30 April 1831 in St James, County of Cumberland, NSW, Father: Doctor Wilks�������������

…�� *2nd Husband of Sarah Noad:���������������������������� �����������������������������������������������

…….���������������� +James Wheeler�������������������� m: 22 February 1798 in Rode, Somerset��

�����������������������

� 2� ���� Frances Noad� b: Bef. May 1774�������������������������������������������������������������������� �����������������������������������������������������������������������������������

� 2� ���� Thomas Whitaker Noad�������� b: 1 December 1775 in Rode������������� d: 16 December 1820��������� Burial: 3 January 1821 Rode��������������������������

�….���������������� +Emily b: 1776����������������������� d: 1856����������� Burial: 25 October 1856 Rode��������������������������

�……�� 3� ������� Thomas Carden Noad b: 31 December 1804������������������������������������ �����

�……�� 3� ������� Arthur Mayne Noad�� b: 1805����������������������� d: 12 November 1882 �����������

�……�� 3� ������� Charles Noad������������������������������������� Burial: 1807����������������������������

�……�� 3� ������� John Noad����������������������������������������� Burial: 1807����������������������������

�……�� 3� ������� Henry Noad��������������������������������������� Burial: 1811����������������������������

� 2� ���� Humphrey Minchin Noad������ b: 5 June 1778������������ d: 7 March 1845��������� �����������

�….���������������� +Maria Hunn� b: 1790 in Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland����� ��

� 2� ���� Jonathan Noad���������� b: 10 November 1782������������ d: 26 December 1829 �����������

� 2� ���� Mary Noad����� b: 14 June 1783���������� ����������� d: 1844����������������������������������� ��

Descendants of James Collins

�� 1� ���� James Collins� b: Abt. 1759 in Hemington, Somerset����������������������� d: Abt. 1 April 1794������ Burial: 2 April 1794����������������������������

..��� +Sarah Noad�������������������� b: 21 March 1764������� m: 23 January 1788 in Road, Somerset������� d: Abt. February 1841 Burial: 4 February 1841 Rode, Somerset�� Father: Jonathon Noad������ Mother: Sally Whitaker���������

� 2� ���� Harriet Collins b: Bef. 1790����������������������������������������������������������������

�….���������������� +Richard Woodward Isbel����������������� b: in East Stonehouse, Devon m: 16 November 1815 in Rode, Somerset

�……�� 3� ������� Julius Buchan Isbel���� b: 28 December 1818������������������������������������ �����

� 2� ���� Thomas Collins���������� b: 18 October 1790 in Road, Somerset���������

�….���������������� +Sophia Pamela Danvers������� b: 16 October 1808 in Richmond, Surrey�� m: 9 August 1826 in St Mary Magdalen, Richmond, Surrey

�……�� 3� ������� Frances Danvers Collins�������� b: 1 December 1827 in Sydney, Australia����� d: 1828 in Sydney, Australia�������

�……�� 3� ������� James Carden Collins b: 15 February 1829 in At sea, off Trinidad, West Indies

�……�� 3� ������� William Humphrey Collins���� b: 13 October 1831���������������� d: 24 December 1831���������������������������������

�……�� 3� ������� William Alex Collins��� b: 13 November 1832 in Sydney, Australia�� �� d: 2 December 1832�����������������������

�……�� 3� ������� Emma Pamela Collins b: 16 January 1834 in Sydney, Australia

�……�� 3� ������� Jessie Lambert Collins b: 18 January 1836 in Sydney, Australia������� ��

�……�� 3� ������� Thomas Danvers Collins�������� b: 17 October 1837 in Sydney, Australia�����������������������������������

�……�� 3� ������� Arthur Brook Whitaker Collins���������� b: 8 August 1839 in Sophia�s old home, Wiltshire

�……�� 3� ������� Humphrey Minchin Robert Graeme Collins�� b: 30 May 1841 in Rode, Somerset�������

�����������������������

� 2� ���� Ann Collins���� b: 1793�����������������������������������������������������������������������

�….���������������� +William Wilks����������� b: 1801����������� m: 30 April 1831 in St James, County of Cumberland, NSW������������������������ Father: Doctor Wilks�������������

�……�� 3� ������� Mary J Wilks�� b: 1832 in Sydney������������������������������������������������������ ��

As far as I know we never knew about Ivy House or Market House.� We only knew about Rockabella and Merfield.

I don�t think we have any legal documents of Jonathon and Sally, except for the following � not a lot of use but id did confirm that Harriet and Ann were Thomas� sisters:

It would seem that Jonathan Noad had some good profits in 1805, and he made some investments for his grandchildren.� The following is the transcription of a document relevant to one of the investments.� I wonder if the original idea was for Thomas Whitaker to purchase it and he provided some of the purchase price to Jonathan, or if the agent initially thought Thomas, perhaps accompanying Jonathan and having a fair bit to say, was the purchaser?

Note that in his will Thomas left properties in England to Carden.

Articles of Agreement made the 19th day of January 1805 between Samuel Day Esq of Charterhouse Hinton in the county of Somerset and [Thomas Whitaker] Jonathan Noad of the Parish of Road in the said county of Somerset xxxxxx.

The said Samuel Day in consideration of the sum of seventy eight pounds fifteen shillings of lawful money to be paid on or before the 5th day of April next doth hereby agree to convey to the said Jonathan Noad a plot of ground being part of a house late Barnes’s and which plot of ground contains by measure in width nine feet from the wall of the George Inn and in length from the street to the yard of the said George Inn the full length of the garden. This plot of ground the said Samuel Day agrees to convey to said Jonathan Noad in full  – and the remainder of the house and premises late Barnes’s the said Samuel Day agrees to convey the said Jonathan Noad as a leasehold for three lives to be named by the said Jonathan Noad or by copy for 3 lives as Mr Day’s attorney shall direct the copy for leasehold part to be kept in repair as a house or houses by said Jonathan Noad and it is agreed that said Jonathan Noad shall pay x? [I think something was to be inserted here?] per annum as a quit rent or bond rent for the leasehold part and the customary xxxxx [herewith?] –  The said Jonathan Noad agrees to pay all the expense attending the conveyance so far as xxxxxx xxxx from Mr Day’s Deeds, Copy of Deeds and every other expense attending the conveyance  –  and it is agreed that the said Jonathan Noad shall have the possession of all the said premises subject to the tenants being in possession on the said 5th day of April next in consideration of the parties agreeing to these conditions they have herewith fixed their hand.

Samuel Day

Jonathan Noad

Witness to the above signature

Samuel Rodbard

Lives��� Thomas Collins

����������� Ann Collins

����������� Harriett Collins

(2 pictures of the George Inn did not copy from email)

Recent views of the George Inn at Charterhouse Hinton, courtesy of a gentleman in California who says �it is a very pleasant place to have a beer�.

The property in the document is that immediately to the right of the Inn.� Note the coach entrance. 

[The George Inn was used by Oliver Cromwell and is said to be haunted.]�

However I will ask my two knowledgeable cousins in Australia if they know of any others.� It may take a little time � one is actually in UK at present and was to visit Rode [possible contact Sidney Fussell] and the other may be away from home since a recent email has not yet been answered.

Yes please, if it is not too much trouble I would like copies of those documents.� I will share them with the Australian cousins.

If you wish I can send more information but really it just backgrounds what I have included here.

I hope this is of some help, if only to verify what you have so far.

Regards and best wishes,

���� Dave Collins

9 Graham Tagg Close

Papakura 2113

(09) 2986614

email from Dave Collins dated 10.10.2010

Hello Peter.� Yes, thanks, that is very interesting, although I think you forgot the attachments.

I notice James Carden Collins is not included in the census data � I suppose that indicates he was at a boarding school.

Ann Wilks also returned to Australia.� She and her husband had a daughter, Mary, in Sydney in 1832 and although I have found no other data for them but they moved to Melbourne after 1846 � her husband was an executor of Thomas Collins� Will .

Yes, I am fairly sure Elizabeth Andrews was of that family.� She married a London businessman, James Danvers, very affluent, from whom I think Thomas obtained much capital to purchase his ship and shares in others.� For a number of years I was corresponding with an elderly woman in Michigan descended from James Danvers� first wife and her line still, perhaps rightly, complained about all the money given to the second wife�s family!

I have not looked at Elizabeth�s ancestry but the Danvers are very well and completely documented back to a bloke who was from (d�) Anvers and was with William in 1066.� James Danvers� business was where the �gherkin� building is, but he lived at Richmond.

Sophia Danvers was in Bath, and very young � perhaps at a �finishing school�, when she met Thomas Collins.� I also note her sister Emma married Samuel Straight in North Bradley, so Elizabeth maintained close contact with the area.� There was a portrait of Sophia painted in Bath when she was 18 but I have not been able to track it � it was in Australia.� This is a photo of the portrait and it is my conjecture that it was on the occasion of her debutante ball, and it may have been at that high society function she met Thomas.

(Picture of Sophia Collins did not copy from email) 

Sophia actually made five voyages between England and Australia � she must have been tough!

James Collins named a cattle station [ranch] he developed in Queensland �Langham�, after the Andrew�s property.

James� sister, Sophie Collins[b 1849], married and she named her house �Greycliffe� but I don�t know the origin of that, however I would think her mother had some influence in that.� That [wooden] house still exists and is a museum in a small Queensland outback town.

Descendants of James Danvers

�� 1� ���� James Danvers����������� b: 1 July 1755������������� d: 2 June 1827 in Richmond, Surrey Burial: 14 June 1827 St Mary Magdelen, Richmond, Surrey, England��������� ��

..��� +Mary Hampsen�� b: 1755����������� m: 14 April 1776 in St Peter le Poor, London d: 1787��������������� Father: James Hampsen��������������������

����� *2nd Wife of James Danvers:������������������������������������������������������������������������������

..��� +Elizabeth Andrews�������� b: 23 January 1774����� m: 14 April 1792 in Parish church, St Mary at Hill and St Andrew Hubbard, Love Lane, City of London d: 16 September 1846��� Burial: Richmond, Surrey, England��������������������������������������������������������������� ��

… 2� ���� Sophia Pamela Danvers��������� b: 16 October 1808 in Richmond, Surrey������ �� d: 1863 in At Telemon, Queensland���������� Burial: Telemon���������������������������������

…….���������������� +Thomas Collins�������� b: 18 October 1790 in Road, Somerset��������� m: 9 August 1826 in St Mary Magdalen, Richmond, Surrey, England��� d: 6 August 1866 in Nindooinbah, Albert River, Queensland��� Burial: Nindooinbah�� Father: James Collins Mother: Sarah Noad��

… 2� ���� Emma Sarah Danvers b: 13 August 1810������������������������������������������������������ ��

…….���������������� +Samuel Straight������������������� m: 10 February 1829 in North Bradley, Wiltshire�������� d: 27 April 1839���������������������������������������������

…�� *2nd Husband of Emma Sarah Danvers:������������������������������������������������������������� ��

…….���������������� +Charles Knapp��������������������� m: 3 March 1847������������������������������� �����

A granddaughter of Thomas and Sophia Collins, Marie Irving, daughter of Jessie in the census, was a fanciful and flamboyant writer for many years and wrote a lot of drivel about the family based on what she remembered her mother telling her.� I have managed to disprove much of it from the simple logic of facts and data, and much must have been anecdotes involving other families, but the writings have also been helpful.� Bear in mind Jessie was only five at the time of the census so memories of Rode reflect that.� This is what Marie [actually Mary but she preferred Marie] wrote about Jessie in Rode:

Her babies, these little Australians, rapidly became the pets of the village, and Rose Cottage, in the main street of Road, not very far from the house of Humphrey Noad, and close to Shoreford and Merfield, other family houses, became the home of the travellers, and a happy centre of the family.

My mother remembered little or nothing of the voyage home, but the old English village with its quaint old people made an indelible impression.

This young woman, the adventurous one of the family, immediately began to see life.

She was always being lost, and nurses and servants would scour the country lanes to recover the wanderer.

She made friends with all the village crones, and became a sympathetic, if inquisitive “first footer” at every house of mourning.� Never a baby died but my mother managed to elude governess and nurses and pay a visit, to admire the corpse.

She joined the hay-makers, drank good Devonshire cider, and came home, at least on one occasion, so tipsy, that the assembled Uncles and Aunts at Rose Cottage, their sense of humour overcoming the shock to their ideas of decorum, amused themselves trying to make her walk a chalk line, before she was snatched up by a scandalised nurse, and carried off loudly protesting to bed.

It was a joyous little circle, devoted to music and books.� Mrs. Collins had a sweet naturally produced soprano voice (they called it a treble in those days) and Captain Tom’s tenor, would in late Victorian days, have earned him more on the concert platform than he ever acquired at sea, though he made two modest fortunes there.� The duets of husband and wife became a feature of many a social gathering, and the children, as was natural in such surroundings, sang like birds.

Of course it was Somerset cider, and I have drunk the �rough stuff� the �peasants� may have had and, although effective � very effective in fact, it was not good!� Marie did visit Rode in 1952 so she did know about the place although she never recorded, as far as we have found, who she spoke to.� She married but never had children so what happened to all her notes we have no idea about.

Regards and best wishes,

���������� Dave Collins

Published
22 December 2023
Last Updated
10 January 2024